Oliver Stone vs. Spike Lee
I sometimes think of Spike Lee and Oliver Stone as some of Hollywood’s best bad filmmakers. Both of them make a lot of deeply flawed, occasionally even downright repugnant movies, many of which are politically oriented, polarizing, and are the product of beliefs I don’t share. But I can’t bring myself to hate them. In fact, I find myself looking forward to their films, and I root for their work to be excellent. Why? Because both directors are ambitious, politically and socially aware, and technically skilled — and when they hit their marks, the results are pretty amazing. Sadly, both released muddled, messy movies this fall, but if I had to pick between Miracle at St. Anna and W., I’d say Stone’s film fares better. His movie’s rambling and discombobulated, sure, but it’s also freewheeling and zany in a way that political movies rarely are. Would I recommend watching it? Nope. But in a weird way, I’m still glad Stone made it (though I really, really wish he could’ve cast John Spencer as Don Rumsfeld).
It’s a bit surprising, actually, since I think Lee’s average lately is better than Stone’s. The latter hasn’t made a good movie in at least a decade. Lee’s made at least three in that period.
— Joseph M. · Oct 17, 12:44 PM · #
Wait…so you’re saying that Oliver Stone has made some good movies? I’m genuinely asking; I haven’t seen most of them. But Wall Street was one of the ten worst movies I’ve ever seen (just completely hack-y all the way through, although its ludicrous sense of its own grandeur made it impossible to turn away) and his Scarface script ultimately undermines the enjoyable gangster stuff with the way it BEATS you IN the FACE with its MEANING and LESSONS. So obviously he’s gonna have a tough time appealing to a subtlety-and-irony fan like me with his incessant bombast, but I honestly would like to know whether any Stone movies can be said to be good without any serious reservations.
— Paul McLeod · Oct 17, 05:06 PM · #
I don’t like too many Oliver Stone films, but U-Turn was one of my favorite movies of the 1990s. For a few years anyway, it had me convinced that Jennifer Lopez was talented.
— Mike · Oct 17, 05:13 PM · #
I quite agree with Peter’s points, including Spike’s “She Hate Me” as the most incompetent movie ever made by a major director and Oliver’s “Natural Born Killers” as the most loathsome. (There have been five or ten thrill-kill murders committed by couples immediately after repeated watchings of NBK’s crime couple spree.) But I still have hopes for them.
— Steve Sailer · Oct 17, 05:40 PM · #
Paul, I have a soft spot for Wall Street. It’s not quite a great movie, but it’s an appealing one, in part because of its own cluelessness — Stone doesn’t have any idea how naive he is, how ridiculous he sounds. But he plows through anyway, and somehow still manages to create an instantly iconic portrayal of a place and time, grounded in Michael Douglas’ towering portrayal of Gordon Gekko.
And yes, Stone’s made a couple of very good movies: most notably, Platoon and JFK. And he’s made a bunch of movies that aren’t quite good (The Doors, Any Given Sunday, Wall Street), but have flashes of life that make them worthwhile.
— Peter Suderman · Oct 17, 08:32 PM · #
the whole being unalive thing surely hurt Spencer’s chances
— shaun p l · Oct 18, 12:03 PM · #
So, “W” is “freewheeling and zany in a way that political movies rarely are.”
But people shouldn’t even bother to watch it??
I’m sorry, but that’s ridiculous.
— William · Oct 18, 12:04 PM · #
“Do The Right Thing” is perhaps the best American movie ever made about race. Just a terrific movie, not at all simplistic, still holds up well.
— mq · Oct 18, 08:38 PM · #
I liked Wall Street and Any Given Sunday, despite not knowing or caring for American football. And anyone who had a hand in writing Conan the Barbarian can’t be all bad. I can’t think of a Spike Lee movie I’ve enjoyed.
— Ali Choudhury · Oct 19, 01:17 PM · #
On Any Given Sunday isn’t a great movie but it’s the best movie I can recall about sports and race, with very little political correctness. Jamie Foxx is a Michael Vick like black quarterback who gets his chance when the white drop back quarterback Dennis Quaid gets hurt. Foxx does amazing things improvising runs with the football, but also screws up basic plays because he doesn’t know the playbook. Eventually the coach (Al Pacino) and Foxx come to understand each other’s strengths better and work to overcome their weaknesses.
— Steve Sailer · Oct 20, 01:21 AM · #
Lee’s made some clunkers, no doubt, but on the whole he has more good than bad. Do the Right Thing, the 25th Hour, the Inside Man, Clockers, those are better than any Oliver Stone movie I can think of right now(though I do like Platoon a lot). Summer of Sam, Crooklyn, and Malcolm X are uneven, but still better than the average Stone flick. And He Got Game is a much, much better sports movie than Any Given Sunday, I thought. No one would call Lee subtle, exactly, but he is way less heavy-handed than Stone (though I haven’t seen W yet), uses music much more effectively (though Stone has his moments), and certainly has more of a flair for dialogue. Both are technically adept, with probably the edge to Stone.
Spike Lee made two fine documentaries, 4 Little Girls and When the Levees Broke. I wouldn’t want to imagine Stone in a similar capacity.
You have to admire Stone’s ambition and his heart is in the right place, but he misses more often than not. Lee has similar ambition, drive, and skill, but I think his body of work stands up better. Wow, though, is She Hate Me bad.
— hugo · Oct 20, 04:54 PM · #